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How do you grapple with the unspeakable? How do you remember those who are no longer with us? We, too, are no strangers to these questions, and in our latest episode, we remember and honor the 18 innocent lives lost during the tragic mass shooting in Lewiston Maine.
As we navigate the aftermath of Maine's first mass shooting, we talk about the harrowing circumstances that led to this tragedy. We tackle complex and controversial issues, from gun control to mental health and the potential failure of prevention mechanisms. We acknowledge the immense efforts of the local media, sheriff's department, and medical professionals during this chaos. We look at the initial confusion, the misinformation, and the eventual coming to terms with the harsh reality - a reality that has left the close-knit community of Lewiston forever changed.
As we mourn and remember, we also explore the repercussions such an incident has on a small community like Lewiston. We talk about the shattered sense of security, the changing attitudes towards personal safety, and the crucially important conversations around mental health, governmental role in prevention, and the role of national media. We invite you to join us - to remember, to understand, and to reflect upon the far-reaching impacts of this tragedy. This episode is more than just a tribute, it's a plea for change, an acknowledgement of our collective pain, and a testament to human courage.
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Ronald Moran, age 55. Payton Brewer Ross, age 40. Joshua A Seal, 36. Brian M McFarlane 41. Joseph Lawrence Walker, 57. Arthur Fred Strout 42. Max A Hathaway, 35. Steven M Vosella 45. Thomas Ryan Conrad, 34. Michael R Desiris 51. Jason Adam Walker 51. Trisha C Aslan 53. William A Young 44. Aaron Young, 14. Robert E Violet 76. Lucille M Violet, 73. William Frank Brackett 48. Keith D McIner, age 64. Let me tell you something Everybody struggles. The difference is some people choose to go through it and some choose to grow through it. The choice is completely yours. Which one you choose will have a very profound effect on the way you live your life. If you find strength in the struggle, then this podcast is for you. You have a relationship that is comfortable with uncomfortable conversations. Uncomfortable conversations challenge you, humble you and they build you. When you sprinkle a little time and distance on it, it all makes sense. Most disagreements they stem from our own insecurities. You are right where you need to be. Let come time we can fight for this. No, but we'll take on running for height To the best. We are way too fast. Thomas Ryan Conrad, age 34. Thomas Ryan Conrad was killed trying to take the shooter down, A manager at the bowling alley. Conrad had moved to Maine to be closer to his daughter, Caroline. His friend, Adam Starter, told the Loosen Sun Journal that Conrad served in the army doing tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. The bowling community kids they all loved him. Starter said he loved him so much he put his life in harm's way to charge the gunmen and save the children who were there. He died a hero, Michael Deslores Jr, age 51. Michael's dad had posted a Facebook post that said his son was killed while attempting to stop the shooter. They made sure their wives and several young children were undercover when they charged the shooter. He wrote. His sister, Vicky wrote in a Facebook tribute that Michael was incredibly selfless and that she was not the least bit surprised to hear that he and his best friend since kindergarten lost their lives trying to protect others. I take comfort in knowing that they went together. The person that they referenced that went together was J Walker, 51. A close friend to Michael was killed at the bowling alley while trying to stop the shooter. According to the Sabatas Historical Society, Walker freely volunteered his time and expertise to the society to help capture the history of their town William Bill Young, 44, and Aaron Young, age 14. Bill had taken his son Aaron to just in time for their youth league night. His cousin, Kim, told the AP she described him as a man dedicated to his family who was always trying to be the funny guy. Bill's brother, Rob, told the Los Angeles Times that Aaron was a high-scoring bowler who wanted to grow up to be just like his dad. They were both the apple of each other's eyes. Young said Trisha Aslan, age 53, was trying to call 911 for help when she was shot and killed. According to her sister, who was also at the bowling alley and managed to escape. Robert Bob Violet, 76, and Lucille Lucy Violet, 73. Bob Violet was a dedicated volunteer coach for the Youth Bowling League. His family members say witnesses said Violet stood between the shooter and the children and his bowling league to keep them safe. Violet's wife, Lucille, was also shot at the bowling alley. Their former daughter-in-law, Jessica DuBois, told Connecticut Public that the couple bowled every week like clockwork. So the violets were kind, gentle people and devoted grandparents. They were two kids ages 13 and 15. Joseph Joe Walker, 57. Joe Walker was passionate about his job managing Schmaggy's Bar and Grill. His father said he loves it. The early Walker senior told the Sun Journal he's into sports and knew he could make the place lively and bring a lot of business. My son had something going all the time. A police officer told the family that Walker died a hero Trying to take the shooter out with a butcher's knife that was found next to his hand when first responders arrived. If he was sitting here with me he would just be so sorry about what has happened. Walker senior said a lot of his friends were killed at the same scene. Others were shot up. It's just a real tough thing. I know he would be just so sorry. Something like this happened. Peyton Brewer Ross, age 39. Peyton worked as a pipe fitter at Bath Ironworks and is survived by his partner, Rachel, and a young daughter. His Visenius unions shared in a statement. According to his co-workers, he loved comic books, heroes, cornhole wrestling and could often be heard quoting one of his favorite wrestlers Macho man, Randy Savage. He loved being a dad more than anything else. Joshua Seal, 36. Joshua was among several members of the deaf and hard hearing community and Lewison, who regularly went to Schmaggy's bar and grilled to play cornhole. Seal was participating in a cornhole tournament for the deaf, along with Steve Vi Zola and Brian McFarlane and Billy Brackett, who were also killed. According to NPR, the killing of Seal Vosella, McFarlane and Brackett appears to be the deadliest mass shooting in deaf people in the US history. Seal, an American sign language interpreter, worked for the CDC to communicate the latest updates of the virus and vaccines to the deaf in the hard of hearing community. According to NPR, His high energy translates to pandemic helped make him a star among the community. Stephen Steve Vi Zola, 45. He was hoping to add another victory to his list of cornhole achievements that night. The sport was a big part of his life and was an active member of the New England Deaf Cornhole. His wife, Megan, told Daily that they were preparing to celebrate their one-year wedding anniversary next month. They've been together for 14 years Now. I've lost my soul mate and my husband. It really hurts. She said she's mourning the loss of so many members of the deaf community. I don't know how much we can take Husbands, wives, families. I grew up with them throughout my childhood. William Brackett, 48. He was a natural born athlete who always got picked first in gym class. His childhood friends wrote and attribute Brackett was killed while playing in the Deaf Cornhole tournament with Brian McFarland, Steve and Joshua Seale. Brackett also met his wife, the mutual friends in the deaf community, and they celebrated their third wedding anniversary in August. Their daughter, Sandra, is two Brackett, loves sports growing up and was a huge Texas Longhorns fan. Billy had a significant impact on my life and I will miss him dearly. He was my great childhood friend and I will never forget our moments. Brian McFarland, 40. Mcfarland was playing in the Cornhole tournament with Billy Brackett, Steve and Josh. The four men knew each other from the Governor Baxter School for the Deaf. Mcfarland loved riding his motorcycle, camping, fishing and hanging out with deaf friends and his dog. According to books, McFarland was extremely proud to have obtained a Class D trucking license and was the first deaf person to do so in Vermont one of the very few deaf people nationwide to obtain such a license. Arthur Arty Strout, 42. It was at Schmiggies Bar and Grill to play pool with his father, who had left shortly before the shooting started. Strout's father told CBS News that Arthur was supposed to leave with him, but he decided to stay. Strout's wife, Christy, described him as a Christmas person who sometimes would start decorating the house. That's really his Halloween. If it wasn't perfect, he'd go back and make sure it was perfect and looked like one of those pictures out of a magazine. Max Hathaway, 35. Max was at the bar to play pool with his pregnant wife, Brenda, who left before the shooting began. Hathaway was a stay-at-home father who cared for their youngest daughter, Lillian. The couple's third daughter is due in a little over a month Ronald Ron Moran, age 55. Ron was a dedicated husband and father of two who was well known for having jokes at the ready, Several family members said on social media. His younger sister set up a GoFundMe where she stated that he was a man who always put others before himself and looked for the humor and positivity in even the most tragic circumstances. Keith McNair, 64. Keith traveled to Maine from his home in Florida to celebrate his birthday with his son. He was a good guy. He just wanted everybody to have as much fun as he was having. It was the friendliest and kindest guy in the room. His loss will leave a huge hole in the lives of many people. That's just some of the information that I've been reading and listening to and hearing, and I think that article covers a little bit of history on every single one of the victims and I hope we didn't miss anybody. I thought it was important to start today's show with some information about the 18 innocent people that were taken from Maine and from their families and their friends far too soon, and I wanted to make sure that something about them, that their memory, is the message that we take from today. And the most important thing about today is honoring them, remembering them and praying for all that are affected by this, and their families, their friends, their loved ones, praying that they find some strength to get through these times and just to really focus on and honor their memories and their positive contributions that they made to the lives of so many. Because here we are yet again talking about another mass shooting, Another mass shooting in the United States. If you guys recall, it doesn't seem like it was that long ago when I came on here with an outraged episode about a school shooting in Nashville, Tennessee, and there's been a common thread with all these shootings, at least for all of us in Maine, and that common thread has always been that, well, that'll never happen here, That'll never happen in Maine, not in my small state, not in my small town. Those things don't happen here, but for the first time in my 40 plus years of living, that happened here and it happened here in a big way, and that's what I'm here to talk about today, and I'm going to be joined today by my lovely wife as we both do the best we can to really express to everybody what it was like living in Maine, hearing these things and then trying to process and believe and understand that this is really happening, that this is real, and then some of the things that happen that you don't think about, the misinformation, the countless amounts of misinformation that comes in at the same time, and just kind of how we're all trying to process all those things at the same time. So that's where we're headed today. Unfortunately, I don't think we have a real positive, upbeat show today, but it's reality today. It's the reality of the world that we're all living in today and it's something that really hit too damn close to home because for the first time, one of these shootings happened at home in our home state. At 6.56pm on Wednesday, October 25th, a gunman entered just in time recreation in Lewiston and opened up fire, killing seven and injuring many more. A few moments later he left and entered Schmegge's Bar and Grill and continued to open up fire. In total, 18 innocent people lost their lives, 13 more were injured and for the first time in my lifetime, Maine had to experience a mass shooting in our own state. Pretty crazy time, something I never thought for a million years that I would ever have to experience. Everything seems so far away when you see it in the news and I know that's crazy to say. You guys obviously know that we feel for everybody. You feel for everyone. We all get outraged at every mass shooting, at every senseless act of violence. We all become outraged over it. We become just overworked and overwhelmed and confused over all of these continued mass shootings and senseless acts of violence, all those things. But for the first time it actually happened in our home state, and Lewiston is just about 45 minutes or so away from our house and it just really hits different. It's something that I never thought in a million years that I would have to experience and I think it was shocking to both of us, wouldn't you say?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's definitely unsettling. You're like, okay, this is too close for comfort. I mean you hear about it and you feel for those people. The shooting in Nashville we felt like we were a part of that, because we love Nashville and we travel there all the time. So for this to be home only 45 minutes away, you're like, okay, that's a little bit harder to swallow. And then finding out more information, this all actually could have happened a little bit closer to home, based on information that's starting to roll out now that if he would have actually moved forward with his first original plan, it would have been five minutes away from home, so definitely something leaving us on the edge of our seat. I mean, I think from the moment that your mom told us on was it Thursday? It?
Speaker 1:was Wednesday.
Speaker 2:The TV had been on the entire time until we got some answers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that the way you put that like the TV kind of being on the entire time and like, and then us getting some answers I think maybe that's the best way to tackle this today is to kind of roll through the timeline a little bit, as it kind of happens to us and it's all we can really speak to, is to us, and you know our experience and kind of what we were feeling and how things were going. So, as you mentioned, we found out by phone call from my mom and if you guys have been listening to the show or you know us personally, you know that we've been dealing with some family health stuff and my dad is still in the hospital. And that day I was actually in the hospital visiting my dad usual scenario right now. For the past month that's kind of been that way and it wasn't that long after we returned home from the hospital and then doing the chores and kind of settling in, and I was so tired that day I remember I was like falling asleep on the couch at like I don't know, 5.30, 6 o'clock, right, because we actually were moving to the bedroom, because I was just that beat. We're just, we're both emotionally drained.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're just on empty, as we said In our last podcast, like we're just, we're done, we're tapped out, we have nothing left to give, and so, you know, it's been like an unemotional rollercoaster. So, yeah, like we come home and we eat dinner and we sit on the couch and we're both like out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, it's hard to function, it's hard to get anything done, and it was one of those nights where we said, you know what, screw it, I'm going to bed, like I'm literally I'm going to bed, and we were rolling into bed at like 7 o'clock.
Speaker 2:I think it was like 30 minutes after dinner. We kind of sat on the couch for a minute and then, like, went to bed and, of course, like because all the family health issues, like our phones are on loud no matter what, like what's going on. And so you had just set your phone down like on the charger in the bathroom and all of a sudden, like or it was next to the bed, I'm not really sure, I just remember like it ringing and like immediately like it's nighttime, so like we're jumping up, like who is it? What's happening? Is your dad okay? Like you know what's the status. And then your mom had nothing to say about your dad at that moment. She was like did you hear there's a shooting going on in Lewiston and we're like what? Yeah. What are you talking about? Like, and we're like okay, turn the news on. Like we don't watch the news, like ever since the last episode that I had to like rip the TV away from you.
Speaker 1:So when you hear a shooting in Maine, you hear a shooting like in Lewiston. What it usually comes down to is it's been a domestic.
Speaker 2:A domestic or a hunter, an hunter accident, right, but like that's what we're accustomed to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you hear something on the news is a shooting in Maine. Yeah. It's a domestic which is sad right. Yeah. And it's a. It's like a murder, suicide, homicide scenario, but it's usually explained by the relationship Like these, people know each other. You know what I mean, correct. And it's a one to three person scenario. That's what we're accustomed to in our state. I mean horrible things. But when you compare it to some of the other states in our country, we're, you know, pretty low on the threat scale when it comes to shootings. So we put it on expecting something along those lines and that's not what we got. When we turned on the news, it was a mass shooting. And this is when things get crazy and when obviously it's the first time we've been a part of actually being that close to, like, the actual scenario, right Like we've all seen it on the news, where you get those misinformation, the conflicting reports about how many people are injured, how many people are dead, how many gunmen there are. You see all those things on the news, right Like we're accustomed to that. Change the channel, oh, and there's 50 dead. You change a channel and there's you know there's there's three gunmen, like that's how things operate in the news. But when you're, when it's in your home state and it's your friends on your timeline updating different information, it's, it's different man, it's it's it's crazy and to see things roll out in real time. So for us, we're watching the local news and you're getting some information. But depending on which channel you were on our local channels, nbc, abc, cbs, fox depending on which channels you were on was how many, like what, the day was Right. They're all different.
Speaker 2:Originally it was like seven and 50 injured and then it started changing to like 10 dead and like then you flipped to another channel, like you said, and like one person was saying like 50 dead and you're like Holy shit. Yeah, like this just went from seven to 50. Like are is there still someone out there? Like there's still someone out there shooting.
Speaker 1:There's multiple the timeline and I don't remember all the top of my head exact, but it was minutes, minutes Between um the bowling alley Between just in time, yeah. It was like six, 56 and it was like seven. Oh five.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that, he was at the next location, so you know you're wondering man, is there multiple shooters.
Speaker 1:Like what's going on here and when you get on some of the national channels which is what made this crazy is when the national news is covering little old main you know it's big and uh, it was. It was crazy and some of the national channels there they weren't afraid to report. You know, 22 dead, 30 dead because they, they, I feel like.
Speaker 2:They're like just put out the, just put out the information. Just get it out there, and it's not even it's not even that, but what I will say is that our local news and the local um sheriff's department that was involved, um, they did an amazing job when it came to like putting it like point blank, yeah. Do not give numbers to anyone unless we give them to you. Like, do not put things out there unless we've fact checked it for you, for the simple fact that, like those numbers can run ragged and you could see, like even for us as like living here members of society, like you flipped a one channel and you're like seven, like that's not okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but like Okay 22 on the other channel. Or 50 on the other channel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, national news You're like okay, but I mean I will say that you know our um, our media and everyone who was running the whole entire debacle was very good about fact checking before they would come out and they would do every day um 10 am Press conferences.
Speaker 1:They were doing the press conferences and, um, I was proud of our state and the way that we responded and as organized as we were, because it was a clear opportunity to get out there and show everybody that oh man's a bunch of hillbillies and they don't know what they're doing.
Speaker 2:Oh no, we're batshit crazy, but but they were. They were to the book.
Speaker 1:They were organized while we're on that subject, the support from um all the other states. You know, new Hampshire sent a helicopter here immediately.
Speaker 2:I think it was 20 minutes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, new York was all over it for a month.
Speaker 2:I heard an article that it was like the the New Hampshire um helicopter was in the air and in Lewiston in 20 minutes from the moment they got the information. It was like 20 minutes. It was like something stupid. Like they like beat feet, like in the air. Send them like the?
Speaker 1:um crazy branch of the FBI was here, uh, us Marshals. So the response time was great, the teamwork was great. All those things are uh super encouraging. And I watched um some of the you know interviews and news channels um the Lewiston police chief, I mean he, he came out and crushed it and and was um just doing a great job. and then the Lisbon police chief I saw him you know, and, uh, even the national media was commenting on, um, how fortunate we are to have them, uh, running police departments, because they were just, you know, extremely impressed by them and as much as they train for these things. It's not something that ever happens here or that you consider happening here, so I'm sure a lot of these guys were caught off guard. I did hear that, um, some of the I don't know if what branch of officer they were like, if it was the state police or it was like Lisbon or Lewiston or what it was, but there was some guys in the area that were actually, um, uh, doing some range work, like they had a site in and and um, so they were able, like they were right down the street and they were able to respond in minutes, which which?
Speaker 3:really, which really?
Speaker 1:helped, yeah, but as we're talking about this information and misinformation, so many things are changing. They're rapidly changing and what's crazy is if you go to social media, the locals that were on social media were hours and days.
Speaker 2:Oh, I've had on information. We were on it.
Speaker 1:We knew who the shooter was before they even dropped the name. Like we had literally before the, I think before the photo was out or they just released the photo and um, like the photo of the gunman at, I think it was at the bowling alley, the bowling alley, they released that photo. Within minutes we had his Facebook profile. Name address everything right online.
Speaker 2:Right there, people. It was so crazy that people even pulled him off the pedophile list.
Speaker 1:Like like his mugshot off the pedophile list, like which we're going to get into here in a second which is a big motive behind all this. But, um, now what I can say is that there was a lot of different information and we're gonna touch on some of the things that we've heard and whether they're confirmed or not. But within minutes, within minutes of that mugshot, we knew who he was, we knew what he was driving, where he lived, how old he was, like his date of birth, where, his location was his last known job. We did this all like. As a community, we knew that he was divorced.
Speaker 2:Yep, he was caring for a child that wasn't his.
Speaker 1:No, he has an actual son. It's a teenager.
Speaker 2:Right, but he's also caring for a child of a girlfriend as well.
Speaker 1:So we also learned that he apparently is on the main registered sex offenders list and he was about to re-register November 3rd. So that's one thing. That was that was out there. Yeah, there was other information that he was picked up for like a DUI, but it was also information that there might have been a PFA placed against him from his XY for protection from abuse order. Now, not all these things are confirmed right and a lot of these things have fallen by the wayside and they're no longer reported. What I can say is on our local news and on all major news it was never reported that he's on the main registered sex offenders list.
Speaker 2:Nope. But you could see that the community showed it.
Speaker 1:They showed his photo and they showed his information, Yep. So that's an interesting factoid. That's not out there right now. One of the things that was out there that's being disputed by several is that number one he is a reservist, he's in the Army Reserves and that he was actually a arms instructor, that he was a weapons instructor, and that's one of the things that was put out there. But it was reported on, it was shot down. It was reported on. It's been all over the place.
Speaker 2:That was one thing that was like hammered into the media, like this man knows what he's doing, he's trained in weapons and he's this, that and the third. And the Army came forward and was like whoa, pump the brakes here for a second.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So the military comes out and says that's not the case. He was not an arms instructor, he's versed in them.
Speaker 2:I mean they even said they were like we can't get into this because this is an open investigation. But what I'm going to tell you is like what is being advertised is not the case at all whatsoever. Yes, he has been around weapons.
Speaker 1:He's in the Army, for God's sakes, but like he was, what I'm going to say on that level is what's truth here?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Is he actually an arms instructor in the military? He really fucked up on this and that they you know they were covering tracks at that moment. Like what's going on here, or is it just complete misinformation? Also, we're being told he's a 20 year veteran, but then you're also reading he was never deployed, he never went, he was never active duty, he was a reservist the whole time.
Speaker 2:So there's some conflicting things that are there, but you think about station in our local next town, over couple towns over, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:He, I'm losing my train of thought here as we're having this conversation, but it's one of those things where you're thinking for a moment that an active shooter has a military background. That's, that's scary, because they can do mass devastation in a short amount of time.
Speaker 2:But you instantly, when you hear, like the facts that come forward, you instantly like, all right, he is a 20 year veteran, he is an instructor, a weapons instructor. All this stuff is being given to us and we're like okay, so, like facts that were given, he knows what the fuck he's doing, right, he probably has PTSD, he probably has some mental instability for the simple fact that maybe he was deployed, right, we don't know this.
Speaker 1:You're trying to fill in the gaps. Yeah, you're trying to fill in the gaps.
Speaker 2:Like as all this information is coming in and you're like, okay, like he's like they're, lights are on but no one's home, kind of thing, like you're trying to fill in the blanks, and you're like, all right, it's not a safe situation, and then all this other stuff starts to roll out. Like he was never deployed, he doesn't have PTSD, like these sort of things.
Speaker 1:So you're like the thing. The tough thing, too, is that you think about everybody. Whenever there's a shooting, there's always a big portion of the population that instantly goes to gun control and they're going to say that you know, you shouldn't have these weapons and we shouldn't be allowed to sell these weapons. And the first, my first thought on this is well, if he's in the military, then we gave him the weapon we handed it to him. So, here we go son there's been can conflicted reports on whether this weapon was actually purchased over the counter or if it was his military issued weapon. So there's conflicting ones there, because I've heard, I've heard both, but either way, you know an active military ID to purchase it at some point. Yeah, and I mean the military. We're going to hand you a weapon and we're going to train you on it, so we're going to educate you on how to do this.
Speaker 2:But if you have an active military license, you can go and buy AR-15s and those sort of things because you're in the military.
Speaker 1:Well, as we're gaining information and we're starting to understand these things in real time, that night you start to learn that the span is suffering from schizophrenia. Yeah Right, he's hearing voices. We're starting to hear for information is that he's hearing voices and they're telling him to do certain things, so not to just.
Speaker 2:So much so that he went and got hearing aids so he could hear people.
Speaker 1:They're saying his brother. I read a thing he said when he got those hearing aids that's when it really ramped up because he thought he could hear more people when he was out he started thinking that everybody was talking about him, mm-hmm. And one of the things that I was reading is that he felt that everybody was calling him a pedophile. So when it goes back to the whole thing about him being on the registered sex offenders list, if that actually wasn't him, then we could see it online saying that something that it was him. So if those were allegations, I'm sure that's something that he was battling in his mind and with everybody else for years, or if it actually was him, then there's some serious amount of guilt there. But they're saying that. What I've been reading is that people were saying that that's one of the things he kept mentioning is all these people were calling him a pedophile. And as we're going to kind of list out some of the facts, some of the things that we did, that we do know, and as this information started to start of the port in, is that I read of one instance where he was with somebody else in his in the reservists here in Soco and he accused that person of calling him a pedophile and kind of got an argument with him and that was like one of his friends and he also made reference to wanting to shoot up the army reserves in Soco and that he was going to blow the place up. And this person you know forwarded that information on and then he actually ended up having a psych evaluation in New York. And what I've gathered on some of the information here is that from reading articles from family and friends because let's just say another thing here, and that's that we've talked about the victims there's some other victims in this situation that most people don't think about, and that's the victims that are the family to the person that committed the crime, because they're living with the fact that their brother or you know, dad, husband, ex-husband, son you know what I mean You're living with him committing one of the biggest mass shootings in the country, the biggest one in the state of Maine. Like you're going to live with that. Your family did that. That's going to carry with you and go on with you forever, I mean family is the one that actually turned him in.
Speaker 2:Yes, they were the first ones to turn him in when they saw the picture and they were like, yeah, that's, I know exactly who that is, that's Robert Card.
Speaker 1:That's who it is. And if it goes back and you start to look at some of the facts, this entire time his family's been blowing the whistle that this man needs help and some of the things that I found was that they're saying it goes all the way back to like January, where they really started to see some warning signs and immediate family started to like notice and then kind of wave the flag like hey, he needs some help and they warned law enforcement. That started back in like January and then, I guess in May they got real concerned because his teenage son and his ex-wife on May 3rd went to the. I think it was like the what do you call the officer that's in the school? That's actually. Resource Officer I think it was the Resource Officer that the son went to and started stating that you know his dad is paranoid and that he's verbalizing threats, and they gave him this whole amount of information. They talked about how many weapons he has at home and you know that he's an omnireservist. So he you know this officer writes up all this information and then he brings it to all the paras that be and then he ends up contacting the military as well and they start having these conversations and the army mentions that they actually made him sit with an army psychologist who determined he needed further testing and in mid July they actually sent him to a psych hospital in New York where he spent 14 days. At Now, when they start to compile all this stuff between the omnireservist and their specialist, this Resource Officer, all this information, the family with all their red flags over this, they end up vocalizing the fact that he is discussing a mass shooting and one of his fellow officers or, you know, fellow members of the military that he had an argument with, he actually tried to run us up the flagpole and he said that Card is a capable marksman and if he should set his mind to carry out his threats then he would be able to do so. And that's what his word for word quote was on it. And they, they ran all these things up right, they ran all this up the chain of command to try to do something, to recognize that, hey, man, this guy needs help. And there's all these warning signs. So authorities issued a file six warning that Card was suffering from a psychotic episode and that he was armed and dangerous. So apparently a file six means hey, this guy has mental instability, he's armed, he's dangerous, he's looking to act these things out. So they issued a file six and At this point the state police go to his house. The neighbors say he's not at this house, so they leave. They go back the next day. They know he's inside, but they feel like they're at a disadvantaged location-wise, positioning-wise, so they leave, they remove the file six warning, like they're saying that they went and checked on him. September 15th and 16th. They never actually made contact is what I'm hearing for information, and they followed up with family and that trying to get his brother to remove his weapons and all this stuff, and no action was ever really taken, and so I have a date here too. So I guess where is it? Hang on, there was no action taken and they never initiated the yellow flag law, which Maine has a yellow flag law and some states have a red flag and with a red flag law, immediate family can report that they have a family member that is dangerous to himself or to society and then he's armed right, that he has weapons and that red flag law is something that you can go and then remove his weapons. You can take the weapons until things clear and try to make things, find peace in this and make sure everybody's comfortable right. Maine has a yellow flag law and from what I'm reading and I'm not positive, I'm not gonna speak out of turn here, but I'm pretty sure the yellow flag law was instituted by Janet Mills and I'm not a thousand percent sure on this but the yellow flag law is that family members can't call for you to not have your firearms. The law enforcement has to. So the law enforcement right now in Maine is answering to why they didn't enact any yellow flag laws because the military told you he wasn't safe, his family told you he wasn't safe. You went to his house. You felt so unsafe he refused to enter, but you didn't wave the yellow flag and then remove his guns from him and no action was taken and that file six order was removed on October 18th Six days, was it? Six days later, the 15th, seven days later, whatever that's when he walked in to the Bowen Alley and started shooting, they moved the file six. Something happened in this state. That was a massive fucking letdown.
Speaker 2:And it all could have been prevented.
Speaker 1:It all could have been prevented and everybody involved tried to prevent it His son, his ex-wife his family they all tried to prevent this shit.
Speaker 2:But all of those people were so brave to do so.
Speaker 1:It ain't easy to call out your family.
Speaker 2:You're turning it all family for the simple fact that he could get in trouble for this. He's making threats he could lose his job. It takes bravery for those people to come forward, and I mean, you have no idea what's gonna happen if you do that. But you also know that by bringing that information to light, you may be able to get them some help.
Speaker 1:And that's what they did. That's what they were hoping for. That's what they were hoping for. They all did their part.
Speaker 2:But with this happening, who knows if that's ever gonna happen again?
Speaker 1:For the simple fact that this is Nothing came of it.
Speaker 2:No nothing, except for the fact that there are innocent bystanders that were murdered.
Speaker 1:Now, in the beginning of all this, I wouldn't even feel comfortable having these conversations about what happened and what went wrong a weeks past. The victims' names have been released, all those things have happened, so there's been some time to have this conversation. Because there was something that really bothered me, and that was this man was at large, robert Card was roaming the streets to what we were told. Right, he's on the loose. There's a statewide manhunt.
Speaker 2:What 48 hours.
Speaker 1:I think it was right. So he's on the loose, Everybody's on high alert, Schools are canceled, businesses are closed Not me and while all this is going on, it's another opportunity for politicians and media to instantly push their agenda. And that's one of the things that gets me is we should be concerned about the innocent people that were killed here, all these victims. We should be concerned about their family. At this time, there was so many people in our state that don't even know if their loved ones are alive.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean our hospitals were flooded with people. They're showing news footage of 50 to 100 people outside of the hospital wanting to know is my son alive? Is my daughter alive? They didn't know.
Speaker 2:We were in a level one lockdown.
Speaker 1:Because I mean there's good experience because you work in the hospital, right. So you know yeah.
Speaker 2:So we were definitely in a lockdown when it comes to like no visitors. If you're not on the clock, don't like you're not there. Unless you're called in unless you know it's all hands on deck and basically, like our local, our local hospital was on standby in case we needed them, because our local hospital is not a triage hospital, but the hospital in Portland, that's like 20 minutes out, was like they were the backup to central Maine. That was like the main squeeze. They all the hospitals were in like no visitors standpoint because we didn't know what was coming in. So I mean it was scary, especially with like what you're dealing with, like you couldn't go visit your dad because there was no visitors were allowed.
Speaker 1:Right, the thing for me that like kept hitting home for me, like you said, we weren't even allowed to go see my dad the next day because the hospitals were locked down. And I kept thinking about, like you work in the medical field, you work at the hospital, and for the past month I've been at the hospital basically every day to see my dad. I just left the Portland hospital and you know, and in the unit where my dad is at it's one of those units that I mean literally outside of his room, there's a front desk full of nurses and doctors and I mean it's 24, seven, they're just, they're there. In response, there's very few rooms there in this area because it's like a high alert, you know, high risk scenario. Yeah, so during the day, well, I mean there's a few nurses that I've gotten a good relationship with over the past week that my dad's been in this location and you know, and these like the actual what is the nurse practitioner for that floor. She gets in at five in the morning, leaves at seven at night. She's been, you know, the most helpful person for for me and my family the whole time. Laura Beth, she's been, she's been great. What do you think about like you're there and this is what you're handling. All of a sudden this emergency comes on because we're getting ready to go to bed. This she's probably just getting off of shift when this is happening. 6 56 is when you know that first shooter I mean the first shots, are fired at 6 56. So you think about all the men and women that work in the hospital. They're leaving at seven o'clock and maybe they're halfway home and they're getting that phone call like hey, you should you need to come back here, like it's all hands on deck Cause.
Speaker 2:You said 100 off duty employees showed up at the central main hospital. And then people were just showing up at Portland hospital, just ready, just ready to go, like just in case.
Speaker 1:This is. This is totally random, but earlier that day I saw a new doctor and I can tell cause. I have these doctors that kind of like chaperone everything and they're learning and they're getting involved. Me and my mom are taking a break and we walked out of my dad's room and we were headed to the lunch room and there was three doctors standing outside and this young girl was bawling her eyes out and she's a doctor and I've seen her there all week and she's she's a new doctor. And I could hear her saying like I mean, I said all the right things. I didn't, you know I, I said what you know, what we all know, and I could hear all these things and they're trying to reinsure her and say that, like you know, you did the right thing. And then, as I'm walking out, I see the waiting room is closed with a sign on and it's his family meeting. So I said to my mom you know, those doctors had to deliver some information to this family. Obviously it had to be some some negative information, something about you know, I wouldn't make the assumption that you know your loved one's not going to make it. I could hear them talking about their grandma when I went by so I could imagine this maybe the first time that this young lady is delivering this information to a family. And then it went. It went way wrong. Right, it went way wrong. And now she's, she's, she's all flustered and she's trying to explain herself, and so much so that she went home, like she literally went home after, and me and my mom were talking and I was like I mean, if I would run into her, I would legitimately say like because you feel for them you know like it's not an invisible position to be in. But I would say that, like you know, I'm sorry that you know the weight which you're going through. Like you have a very important job and it means a lot to a lot of people and that's all you could think about. And when you're seeing that and you think, like you know, often it's a thankless job because when you're in the position that you're in, like even all the information I'm getting about my dad, it's all negative. You're not going to cut. Like, if you go around all day and you give negative information, like, like, people aren't usually thanking you for the negativity, right, it's a tough, it's a tough thing. So all I could think about was you know, man, just a few hours ago I saw this new doctor breaking down in the hallway and, you know, probably questioning whether she has a strength and ability to carry on this job. And a few hours later you're dealing with a mass shooting. She could very well be one of the ones that was called in. So it's just crazy to think how quickly those things come around.
Speaker 2:So you said, rachel, are very high when it comes to patients, patient care workers, veterinary medicine, because you have to. You have to be there for the good, bad and the other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're delivering a lot of bad information.
Speaker 2:All this stuff, yeah, so suicide rates are really really high in those departments.
Speaker 1:I can imagine being that young girl being like you know. I spent all this time in med school or you know whatever. I had to deliver some bad news to somebody's grandma, you know, and they tore me up and I'm balling my eyes out and I go home and a few hours later you're dealing with a mass shooting and it's like did I pick the right career here? Like you know like I can imagine. That's a. That's a lot to take on and to understand.
Speaker 2:Hopefully for her, because she's a student, she didn't have to take on the on the shooting victims. But it might have also been a learning curve, because they don't know where their next vid is gonna be. Yeah. Their next rounds could be in New York City or Chicago or California or something like that. Like more of a high crime rate, so what?
Speaker 1:do they do? Yeah, I guess never even thought of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're not. They're not done. When they leave Portland Maine like they're, or Lewis and wherever they actually are, like they're not. They're not done. Like they're. They still have a couple of other rounds to do and you know who knows where they go next. Yeah. Like you don't? They don't get to pick it's. You know. We assign you here and there based on what you're looking to do after, like graduation.
Speaker 1:That makes sense While we're on that subject, but so we don't lose sight of it. Massive shout out and thank you to everybody in the medical field. Everybody in, in, in Lewis, and what's the name of the hospital? Out there Is this Central Maine, Central Maine Medical Center. All of them working around the clock. You know they, this is something Maine's never, never, had to handle, right? So you have 18 deaths, you have the same, what is it? 13 injured right now.
Speaker 2:That's not that. Yeah, they haven't confirmed.
Speaker 1:That's been kind of conflicted as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I mean that's so. I mean here's another thing to think about is like 13 people have been brought to the hospital. If you were shot, maybe you didn't go to the hospital right then. Maybe you ran and, like you bandaged yourself at home, or you know, maybe you went to the doctors after they're not counting all those numbers, maybe you went to a quick care or something, or you know what I mean. Like you, you got a, a burn on your arm from, like, a bullet going by. You Like those sort of things like weren't necessarily taken into effect. So, like counted, 13 people went to the hospital because they were wounded. Yeah. So there's conflicting information there.
Speaker 1:We were seeing interviews with people saying that you know, like I know, my grandson was at the you know bowl and alley, I know so-and-so, was at the bar and they're waiting outside the hospital and and you know it's, it was painful, it was painful to see and you know and I can. I can imagine the. I can imagine the, just the stress and anxiety on everybody, both for the families and all those involved, but also for all the medical staff trying to trying to save people, trying you know the things. They must have seen all the first responders, law enforcement, everybody that showed up on that scene. One thankless thing that I heard on an interview, one of their, one of their statements that they were giving was that those businesses where this happened, like the FBI and state police and coroners and all them going into their investigation and do all those things, but a couple of like crime scene, like cleanup, like this company volunteered to go in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think they were out of New York. Was it from New York?
Speaker 1:I think they volunteered to go into Shmeggy's in a spare time and clean the place up and redo everything so that when the owners walked in it was one thing they didn't have to see and didn't have to do, because that's another thing. I couldn't imagine owning these businesses and trying to pick up and move on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I mean for business owners, that could have been someone's first job, that could have been you know what I mean Because a bunch of the employees were actually like, either killed or injured.
Speaker 1:You hear the stories of some of the employees trying to fight off the shooter.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Come at them with a butcher knife standing in front of kids to protect kids. And I heard that that Bolen Alley. The owners have only owned it for like two years. They just bought it like two years ago.
Speaker 2:And changed the name Poor. Bastards. They tried, they changed the name, but like our news.
Speaker 1:People kept using it. They just kept. They're so used to the old name, they just kept using it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they were like for the love of God. I mean sure use the old name, because that's not us. We don't want to think about it. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:It was crazy, all the misinformation, all the accurate information navigating through to try to figure out what's right and what's wrong. But in the early stages of everything, when all this was happening, I was really bothered by, like when we would have these information gatherings, that our governor had to come out and speak first and try to have like a power speech over it, and all it was. I've spoke to President Biden, I've spoke to Representative Pengrig, I've spoke to Representative Goldman and nobody gives a fuck. Did you speak with the families?
Speaker 2:Never once.
Speaker 1:Did you speak with the victims? Can we talk about that? Like that's what I want to hear. I don't give a fuck what, who voted for who and what they feel about right now. Like so that the whole five to 10 minutes opening a press conference talking about who you've conversation with, what your conversations have been.
Speaker 2:I was waiting for her to fall off her steps.
Speaker 1:I know that President Biden called me and we spoke last evening. Well, you know what? I don't give two shits about who you spoke to Like where is this motherfucker? Have we found him? Have we killed him? Have we? What is going on here?
Speaker 2:Right, I'm talking about the shooter, not the president.
Speaker 1:That's true. I don't want to get.
Speaker 2:I'm not trying to go down for that Like an Alexa or somebody. Oh, I know, Good God.
Speaker 1:I was really upset when Jared Goldman came on and he started to take this opportunity to really run with a gun stance. Right, and if that's what you want to stand on, that's what you want to debate, then great. But can we find this person first? Can we identify the victims? Can we give their families time? But he comes out and starts going off on a rampage about how I have to do better and I need to do more. I'm taking responsibility because I haven't made all these changes in legislature, for you know, keeping these guns off the street and we need to stop these things and the blood's on the hands of whoever. That's the tone of all these conversations when, ultimately, what you need to look in the mirror and figure out is the fact that this family alerted you, that the fucking military alerted you and this state failed Robert Card and the state failed Robert's family and the state greatly failed every single one of them victims and every single person that is affected by this senseless crime, because we had months to do something. This goes back to a mental health crisis in this country. This person had mental health issues. He was schizophrenic. There was all these things happening. He was hearing things. He was vocalizing what his plans were and we couldn't stop it. We couldn't do anything about it. I don't understand it. I don't understand it. I hurt for everyone over the fact that we had a clear opportunity to do the right thing to make this go away, and we didn't. It does not come down to the guns and whether he was able to or not able to buy them, because he would have gotten them regardless. The motherfucker is in the military. He would have just taken some from the reserve base, wherever the hell he was. He could have done many of things to have those weapons. We had a clear opportunity to keep him away from those weapons, to prevent them from buying more weapons and to remove the ones that he has until we get this man healthy. That's the true letdown in all of this. What's scary to me and what's difficult for me to understand is the fact that I had to pull back on watching some of the news. But I can't believe how much this story has fallen off of national media. We only know so much about this now because it's local. It's local media. They're giving us all the details and all these things, but I don't see this shit in national media anymore. Right, because right now there's a clear opportunity to get better. There's a clear opportunity to realize that so many things happened in this situation that could have been corrected the yellow flag law not being acted, the police removing the file 6, the not making contact, the just not removing this man's guns all these things affected. None of that happened. It rivals against the agenda of banning certain weapons so they don't want to run with it, because it's an opportunity to say no again. This is mental health and this is an opportunity where your state could have done something about it and you didn't. The government failed, our government officials failed, everyone involved in all this, because that's the actual underlying note here I feel like it's not getting the coverage that it should be getting in mainstream media. I actually was cruising around some I think I was on X, on a k, a Twitter, and I saw a statement from the FBI director for America and said this is his quote it's a time to be concerned. We are in a dangerous period. The gaps in our intelligence are real and it's something that we have concerns about. It is a time for vigilance. If you see something, say something. In this particular instance, everybody said something. Everybody said something the man's ex-wife, his son, his family, his co-workers everybody said something and nothing happened. And I've seen a lot of people run with this. I've saw Donald Trump Jr and I've saw other political figures run with this and say, in response to the FBI maybe if the FBI spent less time investigating MAGA grandmas and parents at school boards that have more time to investigate real threats. And it's so damn true, because these FBI agents are investigating people who voted for Trump, because we are conspiracy theories and we're extremists. And if you are pro-Trump, then you are some kind of pro-violence extremist and you need to be investigated. There's proven facts of FBI officials having to go incognito to church services to try to discover that we're having a Christian cult and all these things are happening. That you're spending all this time, all these witch hunts on our former president and all these other fucking things and covering up other government officials and all this stuff, instead of actually seeking and taking and dismantling actual threats in this country. It's crazy to me that this was an opportunity to see something, say something. It was seen, it was said and now 18 people wound up dead because we did nothing.
Speaker 2:You want to talk about. See something, say something. This is so bizarre, but I wanted to pull up this information while you were talking. So, talking about mixing information, okay, when all this happened on Wednesday I don't know if you remember what you probably do there was another location that they mentioned.
Speaker 1:Now they mentioned a Walmart distribution center, right the mother fucker was just arrested. Another person.
Speaker 2:Yes, he was an ex-employee of Walmart and that's why all those truck drivers were outside. They refused to open it because this kid was literally just arrested today and he made a Facebook post. So it literally says person of interest that shot up the Walmart was arrested.
Speaker 1:That wasn't even covered, Like when the whole shooting was happening. We heard of three locations and we're wondering how and why? How is this possible? It has to be another gunman. That's true, that's real. That's not just a social media.
Speaker 2:They don't know if this guy is associated with the other.
Speaker 1:I'm sure he's not.
Speaker 2:It must have been a crazy coincidence, he probably was like now's my chance.
Speaker 1:Yeah right.
Speaker 2:Now or never. Yeah, because they stopped reporting on that.
Speaker 1:There was nothing about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they said they were too far away so it wasn't related, but still like they didn't have a report on it. And then the next day, Thursday, truck drivers in the Lewiston area were backed up for miles because the Walmart distribution center would not open, and this is why.
Speaker 1:Also, a lot of businesses just wouldn't open either to take any of their liveries, right, they were all staying closed because of it. But it just goes again to misinformation and through things being fed to you because they feel like they want you to know or what they don't want you to know, and mainstream media, like all the big coverages, they've really dropped the main shooting quite a bit and if you think about it, it comes down to what they want to latch on to. So hear me out on this one. I'll remember how long it's been since the shooting in Nashville. That was over the summer, right? Was that like six, seven months ago?
Speaker 2:It was actually a year ago, it just came up. It wasn't really a year already it just came up on my look back on Facebook. So let's just say this, because I put up a thing that said Nashville Strong.
Speaker 1:That shooting in Nashville, the, the trans shooter that conducted that mass shooting. We know less about that trans shooter who had a manifesto that they wrote and left behind. We know less about that person a year later than we know about Robert Card in 24 fucking hours. We learned so much more about him in 24 hours than we did the trans shooter in a year. That in itself is fucked up. Where is that manifesto? Where is all that information? Why is that being kept from us? Why do we not know that? That again is being comes down to what can be fed to us, what we're allowed to know and understand. And if you want to look at some other bullshit on this and you think about, there's one more reason why this shooting. Number one, why we knew so much information about the shooter. And number two, why it's not on being publicized as much on mainstream media. And I'm going to say this it was a white male that did the shooting and it was 18 white victims. There's no, there's no race card that can be pulled here. There's no religious card that can be pulled here. There's no sexuality card. You can't say that it's. You know, trans, this no activists that it was a fucking white military member that had a mental disorder that killed 18 innocent white people. There's nothing here from mainstream media to fucking manifest and to hate and to move the fuck on. They want to latch on to the gun agenda until they realize, oh wow, there is a real mental health issue with this one and there's a real situation where the government dropped the ball and didn't protect its law abiding citizens. We don't want to cover this one anymore. It's mind blowing. America. Here's an opportunity to do better, to learn better. Innocent people fucking died when innocent people stepped up to the to the fucking plate to prevent this from happening. This is disgusting. What.
Speaker 2:I'm just reading this article and this fucking puke of a kid, 18 years old, had been aggravated reckless conduct, domestic violence, terrorizing. After photographing himself with firearms and ammunition while sitting in the parking lot of former workplace, he was fired from Walmart in 2021. And he would go to the parking lot every single night.
Speaker 1:And they couldn't do anything about this.
Speaker 2:And then he even made a social media post that says stay tuned for Lewiston part two. That's when they arrested him. The photo and his caption Lewiston part two. But he did actually he did actually try to shoot.
Speaker 1:So again, it's another opportunity that we're see something, say something. It's being said, they're putting it out there, you know, and we're not doing anything about it. How much more of this shit has to happen before we actually fucking do something about it. It's disgusting and it's fucking scary, because when it happens just close to home, you instantly start to panic about people that you know, that are close to you, that you love and care about. And the first person I had to reach out to was the man himself, mr DCF Darren Clark Finnegan, because he's a fucking Lewiston celebrity, right he's. You know he might as well be the mayor of Auburn, if you're asking me. And Lewiston Auburn for those of you that don't know that, don't live in Maine, they're neighboring. You know cities, they're. You know brother-sister relationship here, right they're. They're twinning they're. You know they're known as LA, as Lewiston Auburn Darren, living right in there in Auburn running lost Valley Brewing. And I had to reach out to him to check on him to make sure, number one, he's home and safe and that you know that his family's home and safe, because it's not unlike him to either be out doing something with the family or you know to be. Maybe he sells beers there, maybe he's having an event there, maybe he's playing in a band there. So instantly you're thinking about him and you want to, you want to check in and make sure that he's okay and and you know, thank the heavens that he, he was home and safe. And and the following days I actually had a conversation with Sean Murphy, who, sean, used to work with me at the dealership, and he was telling me that a week ago him and the wife brought the kids to the, to the bowling alley there to bowl and and just a few days ago he was sitting at the bar at Shmaggy's having a having a drink. But then it mattered a few days. He would have been right there by the door, you know, and he says to me you know, like I, you know, my wife could have been killed, I could have been killed and said, you know, and I would have been carrying a gun if I was there. You know, it's crazy, it's crazy. And I can say that the first thing I did was put make sure my gum was next to the dresser and until, you know, robert was found dead, that he, you know, self inflicted gunshot wounds which every coward seems to go out that way. Pisses me off so bad, really totally pisses me off.
Speaker 2:I wish you would at least would have let the police do it. At least us Mainers would have had the satisfaction, and that's probably terrible to say, but at the same time, those innocent victims, yeah.
Speaker 1:I went everywhere. I didn't leave home without it In Maine, like we said to start the show, we never thought this would happen in our state. So it's not like I've felt the need to always carry. Like when everything was happening with the you know, the social injustice, the paranoia that was happening in this country with COVID and all those things that was going on I found like I feel like I needed to carry then because we just felt that anything could happen, like you just didn't trust anybody. It was scary times but I found myself not feeling like the need to carry until this was happening and was said like I'm not going anywhere without it. Right, and you know, just just crazy.
Speaker 2:I mean, if you think about it, Maine does have a high gun ownership population.
Speaker 1:That's why I didn't think this would be possible.
Speaker 2:Multiple Mainers have multiple guns, like you know. They have a, they have a handgun, they have a rifle, they have a skeet gun like that. There's so many different options, but our firearm death rate is very, very low.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I feel like when they're, when you have states that you know, condone, conceal, carry, open, carry, things like that, you don't have as much gun violence and I feel like that's why we've been able to slip by as a state and that's one of the reasons why I was really surprised that this happened. But also, if you think about the situation, people don't generally bring a gun into a bar, you know, like that's not. Like if I'm going to carry, I'm personally I'm not going to carry and drink at the same time.
Speaker 2:I don't think you can actually. Well, I'm just I mean Because like I know, like you can't carry in the hospital, you can't carry in a doctor's office.
Speaker 1:I get it, but I'm just saying like, even whether it's legal or not.
Speaker 2:Right, right. I'm just saying like I don't like.
Speaker 1:If I'm going to go out and have drinks, I'm not even going to leave my handgun in the car. Yeah, you know what I'm saying Like so that's my point is that the shooter would obviously know that you're less likely to be met with resistance in these scenarios. Right, right and from what I've read about him. I actually read that I don't know this is accurate, right, because it's all just things that are put out there, but I read that in like February he actually met somebody while playing cornhole at the bar right and he started like seeing somebody and then she broke up with him and that's where part of this paranoia really took off. I like people were saying that they think that he was blaming other people that were playing cornhole the people at that bar for for this and then, you know, bringing up the pedophile stuff and all this. So that's why these two locations in particular seem to be targeted out by him, as he felt that, you know, his paranoia had him believing that, that the people at these bars were the ones that were doing these things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause these were his hangouts. He lived in town.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and he you know he killed himself at. He must have worked at that place that he killed himself. I know that.
Speaker 2:I remember them saying that he was very familiar with that land, yeah, but they didn't disclose why I feel like he was probably a previous employee.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know that they didn't disclose that.
Speaker 2:But he knew, he knew the location and he knew what trailers to be in, what trailers were unlocked, that sort of thing. And he wasn't he. He wanted to be found because he wasn't buried in the recycling, the recycling trash trailer Like he was like right at the front doors is what they said, when, and, and it happened like. What it sounds like is like right after the shooting right Like he didn't run. Like he. He went right to said location and took his own life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, they haven't come out really with how long he waited before he did that. You know, like if he spent some time or what you know. But scary, so, so, so scary to actually have those things happen so close to home. And we shared conversation together that that could have been the neighboring city to us and if, and do you think about how fearful we were. But if it was the city one city away we would have, we would have definitely known somebody that was there. You know what I mean. Yeah like. We don't have a close personal relationship with any of the victims, but if it was just a little bit further south, I'm confident that we would have. And those are the things that you think about and those are the things that you know. Unfortunately, just, we become vulnerable as a society because we unfortunately have created an environment where we now live in fear that the things that we took for granted, the things that we like to do as a, as a, as a release you know these, you read the stories of these folks just being in a cornhole league, all the members of the you know deaf community that this is their big outlet, and you know the stories of these families and and you know fresh marriages and fresh families and babies to come. You know, and all these things and just the stories of all these victims.
Speaker 2:That story with that mom and the newborn. It's what breaks my heart, because the people listening probably don't know, but she was there at the. The wife and the little girl were there at. Was it the bowling alley or was it the? I can't remember which location so they were all there as a family and the mom's pregnant, pregnant about to have have this baby and the youngest one got started to get fussy, and so mom was like listen, you're playing pool, I'm going to bring the kids, the kiddo, home, get her settled. When you're finished your game, come home. Love you, I'll see you later. Have a good night. Yeah. And then it was. I think the article said 10 minutes. Yeah, 10 minutes after that. You think there was another. There was another dad that like, and he was an older gentleman, that was like hanging out with his son playing pool, and then the dad had gone home again Another 10 minute situation and he had just left his son and couldn't get, he had no idea what was happening. Another person that just couldn't get an answer, like what is happening, where's my son? And then the, the I will. You know, you know how, when a situation happens and you just like, anytime you think about that situation, you'll like relive that moment, like for me. That moment will be watching the, the owner manager of Shmeggy's dad, doing the interview. Oh my God, it cuts me because the just the pure confidence in his interview that he knew my son is dead.
Speaker 1:The. Yeah, I'm not going to play that interview, but I do have an excerpt from him because I think that's the only positive I'm going to take out of this tragedy is some of the lessons that have come from that from that man. Yeah, no, he was absolutely open and honest and just heartbreaking to see him stand there and say that I knew my son was dead, because I knew my son was a hero and that he would do everything he could.
Speaker 2:And he even said he was like you know in some of the, because he did multiple interviews and one that hits hits me like the hardest is. He's like. I knew my son was dead. He's probably laying there on the floor lifeless and you're just like like that. That's heartbreaking and all he keep. All he said was that you know he's alone, he was alone and you know he's a fighter, like I know he would make me wrong, but I could be here.
Speaker 1:But didn't he just lose his daughter to? That is correct. I don't know if it was like. I don't know.
Speaker 2:This year, but his daughter was in an accident and the son that just passed away actually heard the call on the scanner that she had just been in an accident and was killed in the car accident.
Speaker 1:I didn't know where we were going, where we were going to end today, but, seeing how you've brought this up, the man that you're that you're speaking of is Leroy Walker, and I don't know this man but I've been completely moved by him and just his strength and his message. And you know, I think we've come to a point today where I don't really know what else to say. I really want to highlight and thank all the first responders. You know all the law enforcement, all the doctors, all the nurses. You know everybody, everybody for their quick response and everything that they've done, all the surrounding communities that have come in to help. The outpouring of support for the state, for the love and affection will not soon be forgotten. And you know, and the thing, everybody that reached out to us, you know from out of state that we know, you know we got messages from New York, from Texas, from all over the place, and you know big thank you to everybody. But as crazy as this whole story is and everything that's happened, as Ali was just talking about Leroy Walker, I'm going to try to play an excerpt from something that he said in an interview and if you guys could see him with the emotion in his face and tears in his eyes. It's absolutely heartbreaking, but inspiring, to listen to this man and to take some advice, and I hope that this is the positive that we can give to you today.
Speaker 3:Hey, I'm sitting down with somebody in my life and I just can't hate you. I guess we can't make our choices on people, but I can't hate this person. I've been taught different than that. I hope anyways, and I believe in the Lord and I have to feel that way. If you hate and they hate drives you crazy you're going to hurt people and I've had my ups and downs in my life and I don't want anyone to hurt me and I don't want to hurt anybody. And I'm sure this man, whatever happened to his mind, I'm sure he wasn't born to be a killer and I'm sure a father and a mother that would have never believed this would have happened with him. Hate will never bring my son back. I just can't hate.
Speaker 1:I don't. I don't know how he can have the strength to number one, convey that message. Number two, live by that message. Given all that he's been through and he has all the rights in this world to be full of hate and anger, and the fact he says hate won't bring my son back. This man's son was murdered and he says he can't. He can't hate that man. He believes in the Lord and he has been raised to not believe in hate and I think that that's the message. That's the message that Leroy's words could fix this country. Leroy's words can fix this world right now because, as we deal with everything in Israel, with Hamas and the Palestinians, and in Russia and Ukraine, and all the things happening here on our own homeland and these mass shootings that continue to happen, it all comes down to hate, and if you could just live life without hate, this world would be a much better place for it. So, to all the victims, to everybody affected, you will always be in our hearts, thoughts and prayers. And today I want to sign off with thank you for supporting Leroy Walker's American Dream. That's it and that's all BiggieSmiles. If you found value in today's show, please return the favor and leave a positive review, share it with someone that is important to you. Hit, subscribe and help us grow our tribe. Are you interested in sponsoring the show? Maybe you're looking to be a guest on the show? And all that you need to know about the show at sharethestrucklepodcastcom. Subscribe to grow our tribe on Apple Podcasts, spotify, google Podcasts, amazon Music, iheart Radio and all other major platforms, and don't forget to like and share our official Facebook page. At Share the Struggle Podcast. If you're a loud, proud American and you find yourself just wanting more, you can find me on YouTube, on Facebook or the face page, as my mama calls it Just search Loud Proud American. If you're a fan of a Graham Cracker, the Instagram or the Tickety Tuck with a kid's, be a Tickety Tuck in the Tick Tuck you can search Loud Proud American. If you want to join the 2% of Americans that support American manufacturing, head on over to wwwloudproudamericanshop and get your hands on some of that made in USA. Apparel and join the mission Mission 2%. Together, we can bring back American manufacturing. A big old thank you to the boys from the Gut Truckers for the background beats and the theme song of Share the Struggle Podcast. You can find the Gut Truckers on Facebook, just search Gut Truckers and show your support to those Gut Truckers. I truly thank you for supporting my American dream. Now go wash your fucking hands you filthy savage.
