Loving An Addict After They Are Gone

The Phone Call That Changed Everything

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Share the struggle podcast, most meaningful and impactful episode of 2025, was recorded one year ago today. Exactly. How do I know that? Because one year ago today, my wife got a phone call that she dreaded. My wife got a phone call that stopped her in her tracks. And she also stopped on her tracks to share that story with each and every one of you. And it was the most well-received and powerful message of 2025. It's hard to believe we're a year later, one year later, since my wife lost her mother. So, in hopes of furthering the impact, continuing the message, and spreading the story, I am joined again today by my beautiful wife. Let me tell you something. Everybody struggles. The difference is some people choose to go through it, and some choose to grow through it. The choice is completely yours. Which one you choose will have a very profound effect on the way you live your life. Uncomfortable conversations. Uncomfortable conversations. What it do? What it do? What it hot did, did it do. Good low. Almighty. Am I so excited to be back with you? Oh, it is true. It is damn true. Because I love you. And it's episode 302, and I am joined by you.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Yep, it's me.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Welcome. Welcome. Thanks. Welcome to the Surp Podcast. I must say, this was not my doing. You shot your shot last week. Last week you said. I'll see y'all next week. We held you to it. Here you are. Nothing left to it.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Love to do it.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Amen, sister. You know it. Last year, at the end of the year or the beginning of this year, we discussed the most listened to episode of the podcast. We discussed the most impactful episode of the podcast. And it was one that you recorded one year ago exactly. And uh we know that based off of a phone call that you received.

SPEAKER_03 3:02

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

And a year ago you shared the story. And I encourage people to go back and listen to that episode if you haven't already. Or maybe you have. And it's a good time to hear today's episode and then go back and reflect on a year ago. It's also good to hear some of those other episodes about a daughter battling loving a parent with addiction and all that goes into that, because those episodes certainly provoked a lot of conversation and it forced a lot of people to reach out. So kudos to you for sharing your story last year and be willing enough to come back and share uh some stuff again this year. So, yeah, for the people that don't know, if you could just give a quick overview uh screenshot, like a you know, uh couple minute scenario to let people know that are tuning in for the very first time or they don't understand, you know, that they're hearing this for the first time. If you could just uh share a little bit about that and then we'll kind of get things going.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Yeah, so um I am the daughter of a addict. Um, and in previous episodes, we've talked about loving an addict is not for the weak. Um, it'll break you down, it'll it'll shred you uh to your core. Um, and a year ago today, I got a phone call that I dreaded. A close family friend of mine reached out to let me know that the local Old Orchard Beach police here in my state was looking for me. Uh, not for me because I did anything, me to identify my mother's body. Uh, she had been found in her hotel room, and by the looks of it, it was just your typical overdose, according to the police. And I unfortunately, like I said, ran through this scenario time and time again and just prayed that that would never happen. But unfortunately, on this day, it was the truth. I got a hold of the local police and they confirmed uh they had found my mom uh in her hotel room, and she was deceased at this point. Um and of course, at this point, I'm running through all possible options. You know, she was homeless, uh, so she was staying in a motel room um for the time being. And so, you know, I start thinking outside the box, my ADHD takes over and I start going down a rabbit hole. I start thinking, you know, was she drugged? Did she take her own life? Was she robbed and hurt? Um, I don't know the scenario. I have haven't been down to see her. I can't identify anything other than what I'm being told by the officer. And after I hung up with the officer, I called um my dad and let him know kind of what had happened and what I'd been told. And at that point, I just became really angry. Um really angry at the world, angry at everything, not knowing what happened or understanding what happened just yet as I was piecing the puzzle back together.

Becoming Her Own Investigator

SPEAKER_00 6:48

That's certainly a lot to handle and to understand, and I think that anybody listening, whether they know you or not, can completely be in that foxhole with you imagining themselves angry at the world, right? Yeah. I think that's the the instant reaction that someone would would feel. Yeah. Um, since those moments in that time, you know, not to dig into all the details. I want people to go back and hear the impact there, but you eventually uncovered, you know, like the cause of death. You uncovered um a lot of stories that went into um that led up to that event, right? Um you've learned a lot of information uh about the whole situation, and then it's really taken you on this complete journey over the past year. Yeah. That if people have been listening, they've they've heard about, you know, and I think that that in itself has been has been pretty incredible.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Yeah, I became my own mother's advocate and I started detecting things on my own because I didn't have any faith in what the officers had done. Um, I felt that they had dropped the ball hard because they were just looking at it as a another overdose. They didn't care. And that's just how they treated the entire scenario um with no compassion, no concern. Just they wiped their hands clean of it. And that to me was so disrespectful. So I became my own detective and started looking into all possible avenues.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

I think it was pretty crazy and telling. First off, based off of where she was staying, it was a state um funded hotel, right? And um it's known for drug use and for overdose. Yeah, and that officer even said that to you. They just basically considered everything open-shut case, yeah, nothing further to do here. This is a common situation. And uh, oh, by the way, all your mother's stuff's in a trash bag. Yeah, do you want it? Do you want me to throw it out? Just to really show how dumb and disrespectful and ridiculous the detective was, he sent you home with a newborn baby and a trash bag of your mother's uh belongings with a big bag of drugs in the middle of the trash bag. Yeah, not even they cared so little they didn't even investigate. And a crackpipe. Yeah, here's your kid. Maybe she could be going through that bag. You don't really know. This detective sent you home with a crackpipe, drug paraphernalia, and a full-on bag of drugs. And I'm not talking about a bag of marijuana here.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

Oh no. We're talking about white powder, smarties, is what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Yeah, right. This goes to show the complete lack of ethics when it comes to listen. I just think law enforcement is just so accustomed to it. I'm not throwing shade on all law enforcement, but it's I'm sure they deal with overdoses so much they just say, here it is, what's the what's the point? And to them, there's no real difference, you know, whether it's um suicide, whether it's overdose by accidental, whether um some other drug addict was involved in it and shot them up. They don't really care. They just chalk it up and it's drugs and we're in and we're out of here.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Yeah, because we're dealing with a huge uh overdose drug epidemic. And like you said, it's just an open and closed case. There's nothing for them left to do. Um, you know, I've talked to um friends who are uh law enforcement about this case as I was, you know, digging into things, and um they basically said that they would be surprised if an autopsy was completed. Like downright told me, like based on the drug epidemic, I would hands down say out of 10 deaths that they find, they might send in one or two autopsies. Full autopsies. Yeah, because it's just a drug overdose and they don't care. Right. They don't care. That's what a um ex-law enforcement for our state told me.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

And because I've said the same thing too.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

Yeah, because I've asked, um, asked them, like, where do I stand on this? Like, I want to stand ten toes down on business and figure out what happened and what's going on for my mom's sake, for me to be able to close the door. And uh yeah, it was just really heartbreaking the fact that they were like, you know, they don't care. But I do, I do, and I want to know. And so, to my surprise, she was one of the two that was sent in, and we received a full autopsy, which again, hands down, disgusted on the way that it was handled. Her name and date of birth was correct, her markings were not. Like her markings that they're saying identifying her are not are not hers. Like the one tattoo that I know she has, they didn't describe that in the tattoos that are listed. Like, she might have had some other, you know, poke and prod tattoos because she was on the streets and everything, but one in particular tattoo that I know of is a rose on her chest, and that is something that you definitely would have seen.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

And that was never once marked in the autopsy. So, I mean, it was rather concerning because, like, yeah, my mom's information is at the top, but was it her? Was this her autopsy? Was this somebody? I don't know. And we'll never know. Yeah, but what I read got me to the bottom of her death, you know. Um and I I got the answers that I needed that, you know, all these questions that have ran through my head because waiting for this autopsy was not a a quick process. Yeah, like it was months.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

I think before even waiting for it, you were convinced, you know, we had the the feeling. Um she had threatened suicide multiple times. Multiple times. You had literally had to call the police, have her um arrested, brought to the hospital because she was threatening suicide, had her blue papered at the hospital. She told multiple, you know, doctors and nurses that she wanted to commit suicide. Um, you have multiple family members, like there's a whole you did so much detective work on this that you've had so many multiple family members that came to you after this and said, I rode with her on the bus and she told me she was going to kill herself. Yeah. Um, it was such a um overwhelming um amount of information that went into that. Yeah. And then the autopsy with all the random drugs and everything that was in there, I think obviously proves the point.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

But but it wasn't necessarily that that proves that she that she took her own life. Yeah. It was the rubbing alcohol that hands down just sent it um over the edge. And and these family friend law and ex-law enforcement for our state that we talked to about this case agreed.

SPEAKER_03 14:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Looking at it without me telling them anything, because I read it and I, you know, it's clear as day what you can see. Like the the drugs in her system lit up like a Christmas tree. All the different things are all positive, all positive, all positive. And then you get down to the very last row and it literally says rubbing alcohol.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

When um I know you shared it just the um autopsy with uh detective. Yes. And uh you said, what would you what's the cause of death here?

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Yeah, I didn't say anything to him. I just said, Can you read over this and tell me what you think the cause of death is? And initially he said, Looks like an overdose to me.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

And then a short minute later, he says, Okay, yeah, no, this is definitely this was definitely suicide.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Suicide by overdose is what he said to me. The You knew what you were doing, and then you didn't know if you did enough. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

And you wanted to double down on it.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

You wanted to close the case.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Yeah. And to further that, you had her cell phone.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

I did.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

And you could literally on the cell phone see her search history, yeah, articles of her doing research on how to do it, what to do. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

Yep.

One Year Later The Weight Hits

SPEAKER_00 15:27

So I mean, if the detective wanted to just look at the phone, and he did. You know, and he didn't give any effort into it. I mean, he told me it was on there that there was legitimately there was drug deals on the phone, cash app transactions, like not to spend this because this isn't the message of today's show, but your detective work, you literally confronted people that I mean, life put them in front of you, right? Like for a reason, you were on this mission to close loops for for your mother, yeah, and you're one day you're getting your nails done, and a person that is making a major cash transaction on your mother's phone right before robbed her the day she died. Yeah, like you're seeing all of this, and then you're confronting them and having these conversations. You were like Liam Nielsen in some kind of like revenge detective movie over the course of a year. Uh, that in itself's been been crazy, it really has. Um I don't know what direction you really want to go with today, but I know that these stories and this stuff is is already out there, and and people can go back and listen to those, and we could even share more of your research and those things that have happened, but I really want to focus on the fact that today has been a year. We're one year um past, right? And I'm just kind of curious, like, number one, how are you feeling coming into this conversation today? Like, how how are you like last week you said, you know what, I'm gonna see you guys again next week, and and I'm gonna be here. And how are you feeling coming into this conversation?

SPEAKER_02 17:05

That's a good question.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

Um, I've had a ton of people reach out to me today and ask you. Do you need anything? Your mom's watching over you. She's proud of the mom that you are.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

You're the first person to ask who I am.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

My answer reaction all the time is I'm okay. Because what other choice do I have?

SPEAKER_02 17:58

I have a full-time job. I'm a full-time mom. Full-time life. Life's revolving around me. I'll always be okay. But I'm hurting. I'm broken. I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to do. But I'll be okay. I'll always be okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Life just comes with you hard and fast. And the last year just feels like a blur when it comes to her. Because I've just been so focused on getting the answers, closing the loops for her. Making amends with the people that, you know, maybe she didn't have the chance to say thank you to or sorry to. Um is that my job? No. But I feel it in my heart that I'm supposed to. You know, I'm just going through the motions that I'm led to, I guess. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

I don't know what I'm supposed to do. Just keep going.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

I know that one of the common things you've said is I don't know what I'm supposed to do. But I think that when you shake the raw emotion off, you know what you needed to do, and you've done all that.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

Yeah.

What Grief Looks Like Now

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Like I want you to understand in the moment here today that you've done way more to process this grief, to work through this, to close the loop, to close the book, to finish the chapter than anybody I could imagine. You have gone on a spiritual journey for yourself. You have doubled down on your faith. You went through Reiki sessions to have conversations with your mother. You've had um conversations with mediums, you've channeled her, she's confirmed things to you, she's confirmed the suicide. You guys have had conversations this way spiritually than you've never had before. You have confronted people that were on her path, right? People that whether they wronged her, righted her, you have been there to confront them and to thank them. You've done all those things. And also while being who you need to be for yourself. So I know today, the weight of today feels heavy. Yeah. And um, when you lead up to this day, nobody really knows how that's gonna feel. Right. And this isn't about me whatsoever, and I'm not making this about me. I never imagined that like a one-year mark for something like this would have this kind of weight, but it does. When I lost my father, I I didn't I tried to, you know, block it all out, and we've had that conversation, but all of a sudden, when you're a few days out, when you're a week out, you start to feel a little different, and then you find yourself feeling more surrounded by them. You find like memories and things and triggers that happen, and then for some reason, somehow on that day, something comes to you and something breaks you, and that uh that's the way it was for me, and I could see that in you over the past few days that there's been something that's um been uh weighing on you. But I want you to know that you've done all that you can possibly. Do and if you're asking me, the only thing left for you to do is to do you, yeah, is to you know pick up, pack up, press forward, you know what I mean? And I know that's the shittiest advice that somebody could could give, but but it's the truth, yeah. And we gave advice before when we talked about your mother and the fact that when she lost her dad, she always felt broken and she always felt um not complete, right? And instead of living for them, she stopped living because of them, right? And our encouragement for her was always that you need to live the best version of you for them, yeah. And that's the same message for you, right? And I'm not saying that you are reacting in the way that she did by losing her father, but I'm saying for you, finding yourself a year into this, I think that you really need to focus on this being it's never gonna be behind you. But I think this needs to be more about you and what you can do for for you and for your daughter, and in doing that, you're gonna honor her as well, you know. As we discuss grief and how people try to process grief and to move forward, what does grief look like for you now compared to when you first found out to six months in to being a year out? Has that changed for you? Like how is what does grief look like for you now?

SPEAKER_02 23:42

Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

That's a that's a good question. Unfortunately, I don't think I have grieved, except for just these last couple of days. I've been so focused on getting answers for her, closing the loop, like we talked about, um, that I really haven't. It's just hit me these last couple of days leading up to it.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

It's it's it's crazy to say, but I feel that I was very similar and that for me, I wasn't trying to close any chapters per se, but I felt like I needed to be the strong one for everyone else. Like I felt like I put myself in a position where I wasn't allowed to grieve. I just had to figure it out, and I had to feel like I had to step into my dad's footsteps. And ironically, it wasn't until right around that one year mark I literally was like watching a documentary in my office while I was working, and something just hit me, and then I just kind of had this meltdown. And then part of the difference for me is then I just I I get miserable in the moment, and then I just swallow it, and then I don't acknowledge it again until I have another breakdown, which might be six months or two years later.

SPEAKER_03 25:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

You know, like when we watched a slideshow of my dad with my mom, and then I realized like, holy shit, you haven't thought about any of this. And we had a conversation today over lunch that said, I have a tendency of not facing these things, and uh um you you analyze everything and you try to find that you know the answers and the create the closure. I don't know what's the best method for people, right? I can't say that mine is very healthy, but people might say that yours might not be healthy because you you're you're dwelling in it, you know what I mean? Yeah, so it's hard to say, but I I think it's completely normal for people to not really grieve until they're some distance on it.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Yeah. You know, I mean everybody grieves differently, like, but for me it was just uh staying focused on her in a sense that I needed to close some chapters for my own peace of mind. For my own I guess you could say that's how I was grieving, was focusing on closing those loops and um saying thank you to those people that you know crossed my path that had helped her along the way.

SPEAKER_03 26:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:13

Um that to me, which it we had talked about in previous episodes, was pretty relieving to me. And the more that I did that, the easier it was for me to go downtown.

SPEAKER_00 26:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

To not look for her, to wonder where she is, to um be comfortable near where she used to hang out. Um every now and again I'll find myself kind of, you know, if we're just driving and I'm like zoning out, you know, we'll drive by an area and I'll like give it a glance, but I'm like, oh no, we're all set. Like just, you know, yeah, like just rein it back in, kind of thing. Um, but I don't have as many problems going downtown and like hyper focusing on like where is she, where is she, where is she.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Because the wild thing for people to understand that I've heard you say to this to me many times is like obviously you're very sad that she's not here, but there's a sense of you that has some relief and like uh um just an an overwhelming like the worry it's gonna be. Yeah, because you just spent so much time worrying, and there were so many times where we're being in a situation or a place, and you're like, Is she am I gonna see her here? Am I gonna see her on the news? Am I gonna read about her in the paper? Like all that that always that anxiety was always there, you know.

The Anxiety Of Loving An Addict

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Yeah, it used to just eat away at me, and I wasn't sure, you know, um if she was alive sometimes, um, because I hadn't seen her um around town or I hadn't like heard of heard from her or anything for quite a while. Um, and then I just would hyper focus on like, all right, I gotta get some sort of sign of life, uh, know that she's okay, you know. So I'd be driving around town trying to, you know, see where the homeless were kind of tucked in because um at the end of life, the last two years of her life, she was homeless. Um, and she was living in encampments and she was living wherever she could really find um a place to lay her head. Um, sometimes it was outside and sometimes, you know, she would get vouchers for motel rooms, and uh sometimes she could cook stay at the warming station for a little while. Uh it just depend. Uh, but you know, winters here are cold, so I know those were the hardest times for me. Um, you know, while I'm home in my bed, I'm worried about where she is and if she's okay, if you know, I'm gonna hear about her like frozen to death or something, you know, um, during those times. Um, but you know, um, if you listen to the previous episode, you'll you'll hear that I gave anything and everything that I could, um, offered to drive her to rehabs, um, help her, you know, get to a shelter, whatever she needed, and she just refused all the help um because that means that she had to become sober um and come to reality. Yeah. And she just wasn't prepared or ready for that.

SPEAKER_00 29:21

It's unfortunate that I don't know if she was ever going to be strong enough to beat it, right? I don't think she wanted to beat it. Yeah. And I don't think she was strong enough to. Like I think she was so heartbroken over the loss of her dad all these years later that she just numbed herself to it, you know. Um, but I want you to know that it's not okay for a child to have to worry about where their parents are, you know? And that um I'm sorry that you had to go through that. It's not it's not okay. Yeah, it's not the way it's supposed to be, you know. Since we've been together, you have basically been the parent, you know? Yeah. And um that's sad to see, and that takes a that takes a toll on on somebody.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

And uh had to grow up very fast.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

For anybody that's listening, and we hope that when we have these conversations, if something kind of hits for somebody, and there might be somebody listening today to this show that has an addiction. There might be somebody today that is down on their luck, you know, and um you have children. If there's one moment of clarity for you today, that's you realizing that your child might be going to bed no matter what the age, worried about you and where you are, whether you're cold, whether you're alive, whether you're sober, you know? Yeah. And maybe somebody listening today can hear that message from you and and make a change for themselves for their children, you know? Because it's just not it's just not fair.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

Nope. It's definitely not.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

What do you wish more people understood about losing somebody this way? You you know, you're dealing with someone that was like we're hitting on these epidemics that are all over the news, right? Homelessness, uh drug addiction, um, um, you know, abuse between whether how you grew up or the abusive relationship she was in before she passed, all these things, right? This is some of the biggest crises in America. The homelessness, the abusive relationships, the uh overdose. What do you wish more people understood about being the person that is left behind? Like more people understood about the feelings of losing somebody this way.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Don't blame yourself.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

That's a big one. Yeah. I think that's I mean, I expected a longer answer, but there doesn't need to be. That just really just just cuts through because I think that that's the first reaction that people people have. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

I blame myself all the time. I wish my voice was louder. Um I wish she would have taken me up on it, driving her to the rehab. I wish mine and her relationship were were stronger so that she would have trusted me to bring her to a safe place. Um I blame myself for a lot of it, but none of it is my fault. And over the last year I've learned that. Um I've learned to give myself some grace on the fact that it wasn't my fault that she was an addict. Um it wasn't my fault that she was hurting. Um, because I had tried so many times to get her the help that she needed, and she just didn't want it. And sometimes when you love an addict and you want them to get clean and sober, sometimes you want it more than they do.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

That's true.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

So give yourself some grace. But it's also important to love them with your whole heart, but love them at a distance and to protect yourself. Because you can't fill someone else's cup on an empty cup.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

That's very true.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

Is there a part of your mother that you see in yourself today or in your life today?

SPEAKER_02 35:19

Before stopping and realizing like that wasn't necessary. I find myself getting frustrated over little things that you shouldn't.

SPEAKER_00 35:58

And then how it made you feel when you were young, and having a daughter of your own can help you to curb that, can help you to recognize that and uh and overcome it for the good of both of you.

SPEAKER_02 36:18

I think so. But it doesn't make me feel like a good mom.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

I think that's going out on a limb there, I think that's a bit of a bit of an overreaction. Can you share with us um maybe one of your favorite memories with your mom?

SPEAKER_02 36:58

Unfortunately, all the good memories are just lost. Every now and again I can have a glimpse of one.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

You know something comes up, if I see something, it might trigger it.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

But there was always a lot of yelling, arguing, fighting in my household, and those sort of things. Just wipe away all of all the good memories that hold that you're supposed to hold tight. But if I can look at a picture, I might be able to, you know, recall that m moment and that memory, but it's one of those things that you just store away and close a chest.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

I think it's one of the most difficult and status things that someone listening can hear. But people need to understand when you grow up with addiction, when you grow up with an abusive household, when you grow up with um these kind of challenges with um parents, this is the harsh reality of the impact you're leaving on your children.

SPEAKER_02 38:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

And uh the most amazing thing that I want to share with you is the fact that since the moment I've met you, I've known these stories and I've seen more and more of them along the way. You've been a part of multiple, multiple experiences that anybody would run from. And you did the right thing. You chose yourself, you distance yourself, but you always checked back in, left support, gave your heart, did what you could, maybe sometimes out of fault, doing too much. But your advice of loving at a distance, you 1000% did and had to do. Yeah, if you did not do what you did, you would have only furthered a negative story. Yeah, you would have written another chapter. It's so hard for people to be raised this way and move in a different way. So I want you to understand today that I'm proud of you for who you are and who you've become, and the mother that you are, and knowing that our little girl is never gonna grow up in a house like that.

SPEAKER_02 39:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

And it's also it's also should be heartwarming and eye-opening for people out there to realize and hear that this is your story, this is your truth, but you're still heartbroken because you still loved your mother. Of course, right? Of course, and people need to understand that that that love is always going to be there. And again, we want these episodes to help people. If someone's listening right now and they have a broken relationship with their children, if they maybe they were an addict, like we're talking about, and they and and they haven't talked to their kids, they still love you. Yeah, and they might still need to love from a distance, but there's there's hope and opportunity. You had every reason to turn your back, and you've always been there. That's a sign and glimmer of hope for somebody listening today, I think. Yeah, you know, I really think that's to be to be truth.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

I just have to say that if you are an addict and you have a broken relationship with your family, just keep trying. Show them that you're trying, show them that you wanted the change. Because for for me, I had to step away because I knew there was no change. I knew nothing was happening, and I had to protect myself and my family. And if you are an addict and your your child did that, stepped away, don't be angry at them.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

Should be proud of them.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

You have to step back and you have to look at the entire picture. They have to protect their own heart because they probably are your biggest cheerleader and you just don't see it. What you see is that they stepped away from you and stopped talking to you. And that's not the case at all. I wanted my mom to get clean and sober more than she wanted to in her ever in her life. I was her biggest cheerleader, but I was a silent cheerleader because I had to be. I had to protect myself, I had to protect my own mental health because I can't fill her cup if mine is empty. And that's what I did. I stepped away for my for my own good.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

You had to. It overcomes you, it changes you. And um, like we got to a point in our relationship where like we can't just keep going on this way either, you know? Yeah, and when someone's family has to step away, that's what they have to do. And um, if you're trying to rebuild and and mend that relationship, you have to put in the work. You have to you have to, you have to put um, you have to build the case, right? You build the resume, you have to do the right things. You can't wake up today and say, today's the day, like I'm gonna fix it and expect everybody to come back. No, you put years of heartache and abuse on the plates of the ones that you loved. It might take years of you doing the right things for you before they give you the opportunity to do the right things for them.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

It's not gonna take you, you know, you don't smoke a doobie today and you go to an AA meeting. Like that's not gonna that's not the I'm not hitting out participation awards. I'm not a step. That's a step in the right direction.

SPEAKER_00 43:09

Stacking steps.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

And we're honoring that. Yeah, you know, keep going. I I want you to keep going. But I also don't want you to throw it in the face of the family member. Hey, look, I went to AA. Hey, look, I I didn't smoke today. Like, that's not what it's about. It's not about, you know, this participation sticker, yellow gold star. It it's not about that. It's more to it. You need to prove your worth. And I think, you know, like a relationship, it takes work.

SPEAKER_00 43:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

And I know for me, it was one of the hardest things for me to do was to shut my Own mom out of my life. It was not easy. So on multiple occasions, the times that I wanted to cave and say, hey, listen, let me, you know, take you back with open arms. I couldn't. I had to stay strong. The moments that she would send me a message, hey, because I knew that hey was, can I get 20 bucks?

SPEAKER_00 44:28

Right.

SPEAKER_01 44:29

Hey, can you give me a ride? I need to get over here to get some dope.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

Like I not a part of it.

Loving At A Distance

SPEAKER_01 44:38

I have to protect myself, and I have to, you have to say no, and you have to not feel guilty. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life. And I've been through some shit. Drugged through the mud and stomped over. But walking away from my family, my blood family. Loving an addict is not for the weak.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

The unfortunate thing is people need to realize that all that addict cares about is their next high. Yep. That's it. It's more important to them to get high than it is to be good with you. You know what I mean? Like that's that's all there is to it.

SPEAKER_01 45:24

Their next high and how they're gonna get their money for their high after that.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:27

It's all it is. It's all it is. It's a it's a rolling cycle. While they're high, they're looking for their money to get high again.

SPEAKER_03 45:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

Or how do I get my bottle? Or how do I do this? What can I pawn to get this money? Like, that's all, those are the game pieces. That's how it works. Like, and they don't care about your feelings. They don't care how much you put on the line because guess what? When they lay their head down at night, they're probably high, and you're laying in your bed with your eyes wide open, staring at the roof, wondering if they're dead or alive.

SPEAKER_00 45:59

With your heart broken.

SPEAKER_01 46:01

Devastated.

SPEAKER_03 46:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:03

Many a night I fell asleep crying because I wasn't sure if my mom was dead or alive, or if I was going to get that phone call that I got a year ago. Please come and identify her. I dreaded that phone call. But unfortunately, I played it through my head day in and day out. When I didn't hear from her, when I didn't see her. The sad thing is that I could be driving downtown even though she wasn't talking to me because I was a bad guy, because I said no.

SPEAKER_03 46:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:36

If I saw her, my anxiety went down.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

Right.

SPEAKER_01 46:41

I know she's alive. I'll I would see her pushing her her cart up and down the road. I got a glimpse of her.

SPEAKER_00 46:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:51

I'm good. Like a whole weight was lifted off of my shoulders. Maybe for 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 46:57

Right.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

Maybe for an hour.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

Sometimes you'd see her and she'd start flipping you off and yelling at you in traffic.

SPEAKER_01 47:02

Oh, yeah. I would see her, you know, bobbin weaving, yelling at the air because she was high.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:09

But at least I saw her.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

You've been on the aisles with her at the store. She didn't even know who you were.

SPEAKER_01 47:14

Didn't recognize me. I knew it was her based on her rings on her hand.

SPEAKER_00 47:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:20

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 47:21

It's a um wild ride that you had to be on. And I can't imagine where you would be if you didn't distance yourself. And I think you need to remember that. Yeah. You also need to be thankful for the fact that you did what you could from the distance that you were at, right? You put yourself on the back of the situation more times than I probably would have liked to know. You know what I mean? Because you were going over there and dropping off clothes and doing clothes like I don't even know what you say, like a like a not like a fundraiser, but you were doing like these pickups of stuff and trying to gather blankets and clothes, and that's all great, but it also resulted in you being in the Walmart parking lot with law enforcement called and you stuck in the middle of a you know standoff situation and all these things that you shouldn't have had to be in. But it was all because you were trying to get her the help. But like you said, you wanted it more than she did. You always wanted it more than she did. And for the people that are listening out there that are hearing this and it rings home for them, please understand that you need to take care of you first. If you're not healthy, you can't you can't be there for somebody else. And if somebody else doesn't want it, no matter how much you try, it ain't gonna make a difference.

SPEAKER_02 48:42

Nope.

SPEAKER_00 48:42

You can let them know, but you can't let them know every day because all it does is make them resent you and it just draws you back into the into the whirlwind. They're in this tornado cycle, and the closer you get to that whirlwind tornado, you're gonna get sucked into the eye of the storm. You have to be careful and protect yourself.

SPEAKER_01 48:59

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 49:02

But this journey, this whole year behind you. What does healing look like for you right now?

SPEAKER_02 49:14

I need to be baptized. I need to leave it in the water. I need to let go. That's what I need. I need God's strength, God's support, God's protection. To be the best mom, the best wife, the best person I can be. That's what I need. And I'm ready. Ready to be baptized. I'm ready to leave it all behind. Because my little girl deserves it.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

I don't want to rewrite the the script of the relationship that my mom and grandma had. The relationship that I had with my mom. I don't want that.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

And I don't want her to have that.

SPEAKER_01 50:48

I want her to have a genuine mom who loves her unconditionally, who she never has to question on whether or not she loves. I love her. I want her to know that I'm her biggest cheerleader. And I think that by being baptized I can start from scratch.

SPEAKER_00 51:20

That uh is the most raw, real, unexpected, heartfelt answer on advice I ever could have expected.

SPEAKER_02 51:39

I didn't expect it either.

SPEAKER_01 51:46

It came out of my mouth like word vomit. I guess that just means that it's time. I've been talking about this journey of reading more of my Bible and being more closer to God. I wanted to get baptized closer to my birthday. I don't think that makes sense anymore. I don't think it makes sense to wait. Because it's time. I'm ready.

SPEAKER_02 52:34

Because of her.

SPEAKER_00 52:36

Well, she's talking to you.

SPEAKER_02 52:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:40

Before you go, I want you to know that I'm proud of you and I love you.

SPEAKER_02 52:48

Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 52:49

I love you too.

SPEAKER_00 52:50

And I want to do whatever you need of me to support you.

SPEAKER_01 52:58

Yeah. Just be there to give me a hug when I get baptized. Don't leave me like the rest of the people that Yeah, I'll watch it air dry off.

SPEAKER_02 53:08

Thanks. Yes, baby.

SPEAKER_00 53:12

You're being called over to the little one. I think it's a great opportunity. I don't think there's anything more positive or productive that could have possibly come out of this episode than the way we ended it. So I think that's a wrap for us.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

Sorry, didn't mean to break you. I'm pretty broken.

SPEAKER_00 53:32

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 53:35

For supporting my American dream to get baptized and get closer to God. Now please go wash your hands in the river.

Where To Follow And Closing Words

SPEAKER_00 53:44

Use goat soap. That's it, and that's all, Biggie Smalls. If you're a Loud Proud American and you find yourself just wanting more, find me on YouTube and Facebook at Loud Proud American Face page, as my mama calls it. If you're a fan of the Graham Crackin', you want to find me on Instagram for all the kids of Tickety Talkin' on the TikTok, you can find me on both of those at loud underscore proud underscore American. Big old thank you to the boys from the gun truckers for the background beats and the things on your podcast. If you are enjoying what you're hearing, track down the gun truckers on Facebook adjusters, that motherfucker. Now go wash your fucking hands, you filthy savage.